Several times I have been talking with friends of mine, ward mates, high school acquaintances and the like, and, among married people, a topic often arises. It happened yesterday, when a friend of mine mentioned he lived in government subsidized housing. Interestingly, what is ALWAYS the case, at least in people I have talked to, is that the people say they are taking advantage of some sort of entitlement program, and then say, "but, we will pay it back in taxes after we get out of school." I dont know why, but this always frustrates me. Welfare and other entitlement programs are not loans. They are for needy people, not for students who will, within the next 5 years, be financially very stable. (For example, the person I was talking to yesterday is planning on law school, and should be able to fetch a handsome wage upon graduation.) Stacey and I pay taxes, and so in effect are paying this fellows rent. It frustrates me that so many other BYU students in our same exact position decide to go "on the dole" to finance their marriage and child bearing. We receive no material assistance from our parents, and we do alright. It is a matter of sacrifice, willingness to leverage yourself, and planning. One note on sacrifice. The only time I have had an in depth conversation about this with someone, this person was telling me about the entitlement programs he took advantage of. He did so as he drove me to SLC in his 2006 car. The government is paying for his cheese, and he drives a nice shiny car. Then, to make matters worst, he goes out, and votes strongly as a republican. I would say, deep down, most of my BYU peers agree with me in principle. However, when it comes to adhering to what one thinks is right in principle, and rejecting several thousand dollars, decisions become difficult.So, that is what I think. I know many of the readers of this blog are young married people, and I posted this because I want to know, what do you think? Why am I dead wrong? What am I not understanding? Post your anonymous comments.
Feb 10, 2008
The Dole
I hope to engender some feedback and some useful thoughts on this subject. So, read it, and respond.
My Thoughts:
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7 comments:
I agree with you on some of your points, especially that too many people taking advantage of entitlement programs vote republican without understanding why. I do, however, disagree that welfare programs are for only for the needy who will be staying needy for a long time. The government sponsors programs in the hopes that it will give people, yes even young married students, a leg up so that they can be contributing members of society (not just in taxes) in the next little while. We will not be taking advantage of welfare for the rest of our lives, and so I think that we're exactly the people who deserve it most. We struggled with the decision to accept government aid, but in the end we considered it much like the tithing that goes toward our BYU education. The church puts money into our schooling so that we can be active and contributing members of the church. The government puts money into our struggling young lives so that we can be active and contributing citizens. Those are my thoughts...
I do have to admit that you are probably too right that it is difficult to manage how the money is used (i.e. wasted on nice cars), but the principle is in the right place :)
Related to the previous commenter: I once had a bishop, accompanied by several otherwise-reasonable men, who hated BYU. I'm sure this stemmed from multiple reasons, but one of them was that their tithing money was spent on those darned spoiled BYU kids.
The argument against accepting government help is that one should be as self-dependent as possible, and be willing to sacrifice and plan, as you mentioned. However, an argument against this stance is that we are expected to use the tools we have available to progress ourselves through life. There is no reason to make things more difficult for ourselves by not accepting help that is there as long as we LIVE CORRECT PRINCIPLES ONCE WE HAVE ACCEPTED THAT HELP (which would mean no Lexus', only taking what you need, etc.) Jeff, how would you respond to this? The real question is whether the specific sacrificing you speak of is actually required of us.
Here is my response:
Concerning our using "the tools we have available to progress ourselves through life." The Church handbook of instruction indicates that when bishops are counciling financially struggling people that they first turn to themsevles in obtaining help, working a lot and spending little, then to their families, then to the church, then to the government. So, if you have begged your parents and siblings for money, have went to the bishop and are on church welfare, then I guess government entitlement programs would be a very acceptable tool to help ourselves progress through life.
It has just been my experience that these programs are often a first resort, then the people think about getting a second job, canceling their gym club membership, cell phone plan, and cable, then asking their parents, then maybe asking the bishop.
In at least partial agreement with commenter numero uno, I think poor students are exactly the type of people who should use these programs because we'll be dumping tons of money back into them in a few years when we're productive members of society with paychecks. That being said, I also think it is our responsibility to do everything in our power to NOT use them. Personally, I don't think there is any reason a college student should have a car payment at all, much less one for an expensive car. We need to learn to work hard, save money and prioritize what we do with our money. Family is important and that is exactly what we should be spending our money to obtain, not cars, houses, etc, etc, etc...
And I don't want to remain anonymous. Have you ever known me to be shy about my opinion, Jeff?
I think that I'll follow suit and not be so anonymous. I don't know that I have anything new to add to the discussion, as I feel the two primary viewpoints have been established. As my esteemed colleague mentioned previously- when it comes down to actually deciding on less sleep, more work, and a little humility, it's much easier to opt for the extra couple bucks. Given that, I'm not too surprised that plenty of kids roll up to school in their BMWs or whatever while paying for their house with others' tax money, and man isn't better at many things than rationalizing. What I'm not quite sure about is what to do about those people who do decide to turn to the Man for some assistance (other than maybe letting air out of their 2008 sedan tires). Should we worry about it, or just keep on keepin' on in our own poorer way?
Here's a question- if you did happen to be receiving help from your parents, would you still feel like you were doing "alright"? At what point down the line of assistance (self, family, church, Sam) are you not doing alright (assuming proper order)? Presumably, you can be 'alright' anywhere down the line as long as you've followed protocol.
Jeff, if I read you right I understand you as implying that it doesn't matter how much money someone happens to pump money back into the system to "payback" for what they used during their poor years, because it's the process of sacrificing that's important. I agree with that.
PS- Long live Chach
Its not only sacrifice that is important, but, most people would still contribute back the exact same amount if they did not get all the subsidies. The "payback" justification would only work if they paid extra taxes on top of what is required of them, something I don't foresee happening.
We all use Government programs and it is put in place for us. After 10 years in the world let me tell you a little on how it will be. First you will get out of college after 5-6 years and the starting salary is about 30k before taxes; you will bring home about $1,800 a month, poverty level pay. You will us every deduction the Gov. gives you on your taxes, and you will fudge a little, but you will still go to the temple with a smile. You will lose your job about 4-5 years so you will miss income from time to time, kids will get sick, cost of living will rise and the company you work for will cut health insurance and other benefits so you will be forced to use the Gov., family and church for help. Think it won’t happen? Write me back in 10 years.
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